Problem with latest Backlight update

rod barbee · 2016-10-08 03:51:43

I'm still seeing lots of issues in IE11. For example, an album might look just fine but when I hover over the Galleries drop-down menus, the second scroll bar appears. This seems to happen only in albums with the classic grid layout, but not Masonry albums.

And I'm still seeing problems with responsiveness. Headers and footers are not being responsive. Page content is not. And in albums with the classic thumbnail layout, the content disappears all together.

Also, when the browser is narrowed down to the mobile breakpoint, the menu icon does not open the tray.
I'm seeing the menu problem on Andrew's site (admint) too. I'm not seeing the other responsive problems on his site though.

admint · 2016-10-08 04:45:10

rod barbee wrote:

I'm still seeing lots of issues in IE11. For example, an album might look just fine but when I hover over the Galleries drop-down menus, the second scroll bar appears. This seems to happen only in albums with the classic grid layout, but not Masonry albums.
And I'm still seeing problems with responsiveness. Headers and footers are not being responsive. Page content is not. And in albums with the classic thumbnail layout, the content disappears all together.
Also, when the browser is narrowed down to the mobile breakpoint, the menu icon does not open the tray.
I'm seeing the menu problem on Andrew's site (admint) too. I'm not seeing the other responsive problems on his site though.

Hmmm... Are you talking about when you resize the browser, the drop down menus don't work?

Drop%20down%20menu%20issue.PNG

If that's the responsiveness you're talking about, yeah, it doesn't work.

I also don't see any scroll bars when I'm viewing my site in full view, but than again I'm on a 24 inch screen with a res of 1920x1200. Now if I resize I just get the normal scroll bar to the left. That said, when I resize as in the image above, I can cycle that scroll bar to the right on and off by simply clicking the drop down menu (3-line icon).

Oh, and yes, I'm using Masonry style for my thumbs layout so I don't see the other issue you mention.

rod barbee · 2016-10-08 05:10:14

yep, the responsive menu isn't working. I've got other things on my test site that aren't working in IE11 as well. Like the header and footer responsiveness. But they seem to work on your site.
I don't envy web designers who are trying to use cutting edge stuff but need to account for older browsers. And IE, to me, has always had one problem or another.

admint · 2016-10-08 05:19:17

rod barbee wrote:

But they seem to work on your site.

That's... odd. Anything I can do to help figure out why?

rod barbee wrote:

I don't envy web designers who are trying to use cutting edge stuff but need to account for older browsers. And IE, to me, has always had one problem or another.

I guess you really wouldn't notice some of these things unless you're a coder. BTW I took a Java programing class a few years back, but it really wasn't my cup of tea.

Anyway let me know if there's something I can do to help figure out my why?

Matthew · 2016-10-08 13:21:57

I've updated the files again. Can you give them another try?

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/i23bzo8o7qej … 5MHqa?dl=0

The changes are somewhat more invasive this time around. I've done some testing in Chrome as well to make sure I haven't screwed anything up, and it seems to be okay. But please check things out in as many places as possible -- in IE, in other browsers, on mobile devices -- and let me know how it goes. In particular, the off-canvas menus should be checked to ensure they work and that tray content is clickable.

I'm hoping these will be final versions, but I guess we'll see how it goes.

Matthew · 2016-10-08 13:23:30

Oliver, I've also done some poking around on your site. Mostly, it's allowed me to reproduce some issues in my own space and test things out. Hopefully these new versions will leave you in a better place. I may or may not want to dive back into your site to poke around after you've installed these files.

rod barbee · 2016-10-08 13:53:55

off canvas menus are working in IE11. But I'm still seeing the problems with header/footer responsiveness as well as the disappearing content problem in albums using the classic thumbnail layout when narrowing the browser.

also have the same issue of the scroll bar on the page content rather than at the edge of the browser in albums using classic thumbnail layout.

When using masonry, the scroll bar is at edge of browser. But I still have responsiveness issues with the grid. The thumbnails are not resizing and I get a scroll bar on the bottom.

This seem fine in other browsers. Stupid IE11.

Matthew · 2016-10-08 13:57:52

I'm not seeing these issues with the latest changes. In fact, I'm surprised at how well things are behaving in IE11 at this point. Can you try going into each of your templates and saving, then reload your browser?

Matthew · 2016-10-08 15:00:50

Okay, trying something a little different. Again, this is testing positively for me.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/i23bzo8o7qej … 5MHqa?dl=0

volvoxturbo · 2016-10-08 15:44:45

Hi Matt,

thank you very much! It looks good for now :-)
I will have a closer look to it next week.

Best regards,
Oliver

rod barbee · 2016-10-08 22:24:03

All right. That's much better. Page content not disappearing. Responsive header and footer working. Off canvas menu working.

issues I'm having now are double scroll bars on Masonry layout albums and sets.
There is also some inconsistency about when and where the scroll bars appear.

On stand-alone pages I'm seeing the scroll bar on page content. for example, this page:
http://backlight-rb-test.barbeephoto.com/sidebar-right/

other stand-alone pages have double scroll bars:
http://backlight-rb-test.barbeephoto.co … -nav-left/

On pages that contain Masonry albums or in Masonry albums themselves, I'm seeing double scroll bars:
http://backlight-rb-test.barbeephoto.com/home/
and
http://backlight-rb-test.barbeephoto.co … -workshop/

in albums using the classic thumbnail layout, the scroll bar is on the content rather than at the edge of the browser:
http://backlight-rb-test.barbeephoto.co … abstracts/

But otherwise, the site seems to be running fine under IE11. The scroll bar thing is weird looking, but it's not breaking the site.

Matthew · 2016-10-08 22:39:47

Strange, I don't see any of those issues in my test site. At this point, I'm not sure it's going to get much better for IE users. Sites are usable, and I'm really not going for much more than that. Responsiveness isn't really an issue, as there are no mobile devices running Internet Explorer; we can safely assume a full desktop environment. We're absolutely not going to get perfection, or anything close to what we're getting in literally every other browser available. At some point, those sticking to outdated, thoroughly crappy browsers simply need to accept their lot. It's not as if they don't have options. IE 10 is officially unsupported by Microsoft, and I would expect IE 11 to lose support very soon.

Matthew · 2016-10-08 22:42:44

Oh, one thing I have noticed is that IE seems not to like it when your drop-menus are taller than the page. In truth, menus just shouldn't be that long. On Rod's Backlight demo site there's a fairly legitimate reason for it, but I think under normal circumstances that's generally not the case. I personally find great value in restraint in such things.

rod barbee · 2016-10-08 22:57:36

just switched menus on a couple of page templates. This menu has no drop-downs, but I'm seeing the same issues. Cleared both template and browser cache.

The site is functional under IE11 and for me, that's all that's really going to count. The pictures display as they should, the pages show the content they should, and it's responsive, not that that really matters for a desktop browser. And IE11 is on its way out anyway, isn't it?
I'm not going to worry about it.

admint · 2016-10-09 01:01:14

Matthew wrote:

Strange, I don't see any of those issues in my test site. At this point, I'm not sure it's going to get much better for IE users. Sites are usable, and I'm really not going for much more than that. Responsiveness isn't really an issue, as there are no mobile devices running Internet Explorer; we can safely assume a full desktop environment. We're absolutely not going to get perfection, or anything close to what we're getting in literally every other browser available. At some point, those sticking to outdated, thoroughly crappy browsers simply need to accept their lot. It's not as if they don't have options. IE 10 is officially unsupported by Microsoft, and I would expect IE 11 to lose support very soon.

Matt, it’s obvious you’re frustrated, but I have to say if you’re going to sell a product that relies on web browsers, it needs to work. While I agree you can’t support old outdated browsers, it still should function properly under all modern browsers, including Internet Explorer 11, which is still used by millions of people.

Yes, those of us buying your program may understand (or at least be told) there may be inherent conflicts between it and Internet Explorer, but our visitors do not. All they know is they’re visiting a website with a browser. As I said before, I can’t simply tell my site visitors which browsers to use. That’s bad for business.

That said, on my website the latest fixes you provided is working very well there, including the dropdown menus, and the proper resizing in the browser. Thanks, and I appreciate the hard work and would definitely recommend your product to others. I also appreciate the rapid support here.

One thing I really want to stress is when replacing these files (Scaffolding, layout), you really need to clear template cache, AND clear browser cache otherwise you may not see the changes these files provide. I didn’t until I did the above.

Thanks for the hard work from Matt, and others.

Peace

Last edited by admint (2016-10-09 01:02:11)

Matthew · 2016-10-09 02:39:05

Glad to hear the changes are working for you.

A website should function in all major browsers; it does not have to provide an equal experience. Whether or not IE 11 still constitutes a "major browser" is debatable. I'd say not. It is not a modern browser; Edge is Microsoft's modern browser. At best, IE 11 is a legacy browser being kept on life-support, while IE 10 is entirely unsupported by Microsoft.

What I am most definitely NOT going to do is hamstring our product in modern browsers for the sake of Internet Explorer. Especially when an increasing number of people are going to be visiting your website on phones and tablets. The features that are really hanging us up in IE are exactly the same features I've implemented to provide a better experience for those devices, which are more modern, more important, and more widely in use.

And now that I've sunk several days into IE hacks, and trying to make those hacks as unobtrusive as possible, I think I've arrived at the best solutions available to us.

Cheers,
Matt

admint · 2016-10-09 05:31:08

Matthew wrote:

Glad to hear the changes are working for you.
A website should function in all major browsers; it does not have to provide an equal experience. Whether or not IE 11 still constitutes a "major browser" is debatable. I'd say not. It is not a modern browser; Edge is Microsoft's modern browser. At best, IE 11 is a legacy browser being kept on life-support, while IE 10 is entirely unsupported by Microsoft.

No one is denying things are changing, including browsers; but my point remains.... IE11 is still a major browser used by many.

But yes, out with the old and in with the new. It's why I needed to update my old FrontPage built site! It's why I upgrade/build a new PC every 3 years, it's why I always update to the latest version of Windows

And again, thanks for the effort you did put in, in getting this to work.

Peace

Last edited by admint (2016-10-09 05:32:54)

Daniel Leu · 2016-10-09 08:11:02

I just looked at my statistic over the last 12 months: IE users: 4.56%, Edge 0.85%. Puzzled that Edge is not higher.

It should be easy to add a pop-up for all IE users to encourage them to move to Edge, Chrome or Firefox for the best user experience.

Matthew · 2016-10-09 12:41:36

I don't think Windows 10 has gotten quite the traction Microsoft was hoping for, mostly because they keep shooting themselves in the foot. For example, they've been very heavy-handed about their app store, and a lot of people aren't liking it.

Also, depending on your source, browser statistics vary wildly, and I suspect they are artificially inflated by illegitimate traffic, like the guys who keep joining the forum to post real estate spam, or the Russian girls on twitter who keep inviting me to sex chats. South Korea has a long and sordid history with ActiveX, and so a lot of Koreans are forced into using Internet Explorer for their online banking; many of them use better browsers for their casual browsing, but this still props up IE's numbers here in Korea.

admint · 2016-10-09 14:57:25

Matthew wrote:

I don't think Windows 10 has gotten quite the traction Microsoft was hoping for, mostly because they keep shooting themselves in the foot. For example, they've been very heavy-handed about their app store, and a lot of people aren't liking it.

I've heard this same theme from 95 to now Windows 10. Thus far Windows has managed to survive; so will 10.

But yes, there are many who complain about Windows 10, I read them on the tech forums everyday. However the vast majority of those actually using Windows 10 like it. Of course there are some annoyances, but this is with any OS.

Matthew wrote:

Also, depending on your source, browser statistics vary wildly, and I suspect they are artificially inflated by illegitimate traffic, like the guys who keep joining the forum to post real estate spam, or the Russian girls on twitter who keep inviting me to sex chats. South Korea has a long and sordid history with ActiveX, and so a lot of Koreans are forced into using Internet Explorer for their online banking; many of them use better browsers for their casual browsing, but this still props up IE's numbers here in Korea.

C'mon Matt, really? These are most of the IE users??? Now I'm asking for stats

lofty · 2016-10-09 15:47:18

My Pennies Worth,

In my (maybe limited) experience in the IT Industry, my friends in the UK agree that in their Companies (and at ours) they are sticking with windows 7 for now. Usage of IE is very small and only where applications dictate IE. I don't have statistics from them, just anecdotal information, but in a straw poll at work with my 150 users; No IE users, 4 Safari, 104 Firefox, 25 Chrome, remainder split usage Firefox and Chrome on the same PC.

Matthew · 2016-10-09 16:04:46

Yeah, really. There's enough awareness now, and alternative options available in spades on every platform. People still using IE either deserve the experience they're getting and are okay with that, are using public terminals, or it's just not legitimate traffic. On Windows 10, you have to really dig into menus just to find IE 11. I just logged into Gmail in IE 11, and my inbox is recommending that I try using Chrome instead; that's a built-in advisory to people logging in on Internet Explorer.

Here's an article only one month old:
http://www.netimperative.com/2016/09/ad … wser-bots/

Microsoft’s browser has the highest levels of ad fraud, followed by Google’s, according to a new study.
The research, from FraudLogix, indicates that half of Internet Explorer’s impressions were from bots, compared to 20.5% of non-human impressions on Google’s Chrome.
Key findings:
Internet Explorer. About 50% of impressions served were deemed to be “nonhuman.” Internet Explorer made up 16.2% of overall traffic analyzed.
...
“Bots and malware often forge user agent strings to produce “fake” traffic, which can’t be attributed to a particular browser,” Microsoft said in a statement.

Here's an article about bots:
http://www.adweek.com/socialtimes/disti … ots/628733

Here's another article:
https://blog.sucuri.net/2015/08/funwebp … affic.html

In that one, scroll down to the heading "Other Risky User Agents".

Maybe you already noticed that one of the other user agents is running Internet Explorer 7 on Windows XP? Defunct browsers on defunct operating systems. Not a good sign.

Here's an article about traffic spikes and IE7:
https://www.seroundtable.com/direct-tra … 18897.html

I think that's more than enough; I'm done. I'm not saying there's no one using IE; I'm saying those people are idiots, who could do a lot better if they gave a damn, and that the analytics numbers on browser usage are complete bullshit. I also think that if you consider the audience for photography sites, you can rightly assume that global analytics for IE usage will not be a match to localized analytics, as photographers and people who give a damn about photography are probably more savvy about such things than the masses who do little more than follow clickbait from Facebook.

admint · 2016-10-10 03:16:45

OK, Matt. You feel the way you feel.

Later.

Community @ The Turning Gate

#26 2016-10-08 03:51:43

Re: Problem with latest Backlight update

#27 2016-10-08 04:45:10

Re: Problem with latest Backlight update

#28 2016-10-08 05:10:14

Re: Problem with latest Backlight update

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Re: Problem with latest Backlight update

#30 2016-10-08 13:21:57

Re: Problem with latest Backlight update

#31 2016-10-08 13:23:30

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#32 2016-10-08 13:53:55

Re: Problem with latest Backlight update

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#35 2016-10-08 15:44:45

Re: Problem with latest Backlight update

#36 2016-10-08 22:24:03

Re: Problem with latest Backlight update

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Re: Problem with latest Backlight update

#38 2016-10-08 22:42:44

Re: Problem with latest Backlight update

#39 2016-10-08 22:57:36

Re: Problem with latest Backlight update

#40 2016-10-09 01:01:14

Re: Problem with latest Backlight update

#41 2016-10-09 02:39:05

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#42 2016-10-09 05:31:08

Re: Problem with latest Backlight update

#43 2016-10-09 08:11:02

Re: Problem with latest Backlight update

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