To Backlight or Not...

jeffreyhughes · 2016-05-05 07:04:01

Congratulations on the release of Backlight! It looks like an intriguing follow-on to the CE series...

I'm currently running CE3 (Pages, Gallery, Publisher, and Auto Index), with the latest standalone version of Lightroom (6.1.1), on a Mac running Yosemite (OS X 10.10.5). I'll probably update OS X to El Capitan within the week.

I LOVE being able to update my website directly from Lightroom. CE3 has certainly met its mission in that regard.

What hasn't been so great is making changes to the website itself (adding galleries, changing text, etc.). The installation process of CE3 is/was so arcane - and that's being kind - that one blanches at the thought of having to re-learn, many months later, the convoluted steps necessary. And so design updates don't happen and, other than individual images within the galleries, the site kind of stagnates.

With that as the backdrop, I'll pose two questions...

1) Is the installation - and subsequent update - process more streamlined than than in CE3? Backlight documentation still seems a bit sparse, but it appears it might be improved in that respect. I'd appreciate any perspective.

2) What are the implications of moving from CE3 to Backlight? I see there is a migration tool for those on CE4, but no mention of how those on CE3 or CE2 would proceed. I'm not particularly put off by not having a direct migration tool and thus having to manually rebuild the site, but it does lead to obvious questions regarding the current CE3 / Lightroom config. Does installing Backlight create any kind of conflict with the CE3 plugins? Is it necessary to first remove those CE3 plugins and, if so, how? If it's not necessary to remove them, what are the implications of having two instances of Publisher (the one installed with CE3 and the one installed with Backlight) running?

Some commentary on upgrading from CE3 or CE2 would be helpful...

Thanks in advance!

Jeff

Last edited by jeffreyhughes (2016-05-05 07:05:25)

rod barbee · 2016-05-05 07:32:14

1) Is the installation - and subsequent update - process more streamlined than than in CE3?

yes. There are no Lightroom web engines so no more downloading and installing those. The only Lightroom-based part of Backlight is the Publisher plug-in. All updates will involve uploading files to the /backlight folder on your server.
I find it much easier, and this is coming from a person who's been immersed in TTG and all the updates for several years.

2) What are the implications of moving from CE3 to Backlight? I see there is a migration tool for those on CE4, but no mention of how those on CE3 or CE2 would proceed.

Matt has mentioned providing CE4 Publisher to those moving from CE3. It would be a two step process: migrate CE3 albums and album sets to CE4 Publisher control and then migrate the CE4 albums and sets to Backlight.
There's been on mention of a migration path from CE2, that may just be too old.

Does installing Backlight create any kind of conflict with the CE3 plugins?

Since Backlight does not install in Lightroom (other than Publisher), there is no conflict.
Backlight Publisher will replace CE4 Publisher in the Publish Services control pane (what used to be TTG CE4 Publisher will become TTG Publisher), but it does not replace the CE3 Publisher.

I'm assuming you can run CE3 Publisher in parallel with Backlight Publisher, though I wouldn't recommend publishing to the same top-level gallery. Or at least run a test with it in a sub-domain before you try it on your production site.

Some commentary on upgrading from CE3 or CE2 would be helpful...

Matt's addressed it either in a recent blog post or on the TTG Users' Facebook page. Like I mentioned above, it looks like there will be a path from CE3 to Backlight, but probably not CE2 to Backlight.

gaufde · 2016-05-05 07:42:27

Hi Jeffrey,
I was on the Backlight beta testing team so I will try and answer some of your questions. First, let me say that I joined TTG with CE4, so I don't have specific experience with CE2 or CE3. However, I think I can help answer your questions.

1) Backlight is a completely different system from any of the CE plugins. If you are familiar with the way TTG BE worked in CE4 or the cart worked in CE3 then you should have no trouble. Backlight installs similar to TTG BE in that you simply upload a bunch of files all contained within a few directories. Then, you navigate to www.yoursite.com/backlight and you are all ready to go. It probably takes five-ten minutes from start to finish. Updating is as simple as replacing a couple key directories and logging in again. That is it. You only have to update this one thing--Backlight--instead of having to update 3-6 different things. At the moment, Backlight has all of the functionality of Galleries, Auto Index, and Pages (if you buy that bundle). I also know that Mat and Ben plan on adding more modules so that Backlight becomes as diverse as CE4.

2) Backlight no longer runs inside Lr. All of your designing and content editing happens online now. I don't think that there is a direct way to migrate from CE3 to Backlight. I think someone discussed that you might be able to migrate to CE4, and then from CE4 to Backlight. However, I recommend starting over. For one thing, this gives you an opportunity to update your design. Also, Backlight is significantly faster than any of the CE plugins: it will take a fraction of the time to make a Backlight site compared to CE. It doesn't hang up at all, and you can see changes in real time online. You no longer have to upload anything to make changes to your site. In short, there aren't any delays or bottle necks when using Backlight. All of the problems with CE3 you expressed in your introduction are gone. In many ways, Backlight is more like Wordpress than any of the CE plugins. Thus, there shouldn't be any conflict with CE3 because there isn't any crossover. The one area that might be an issue will be the publisher. When I started using Backlight, the new version of publisher took over from the CE4 version. This was fine because it still works fine with CE4, however, I don't know if this is the case with earlier versions. Rod or Mat or Ben will probably have to tell you whether or not the Backlight publisher will work with CE3.

rod barbee · 2016-05-05 07:47:40

Also, Backlight is significantly faster than any of the CE plugins: it will take a fraction of the time to make a Backlight site compared to CE.

+1

Matthew · 2016-05-05 11:22:55

Hi Jeffrey,

Sounds like Rod and Graceson have mostly got you covered. I have just a little bit I'll add.

I acknowledge that, for all their power, the CE plugins were a pain in the ass to use. I didn't mind so much at first, and most of our users seem to have agreed that they were worth the tradeoff in inconvenience, but they definitely wore me down after a while. I was prototyping CE5, and I just didn't want to do it anymore. With that in mind, Backlight was designed specifically to be more simple.

If you haven't already seen it, check out the short video on this page:
http://theturninggate.net/2016/04/14/ba … irst-look/

It should give you a good impression of how quick and easy it is to get set up with Backlight, and then some of what's involved in using it.

And while I no longer keep the CE3 versions installed, I do not believe Backlight's publisher should create any conflict with CE3 Publisher. If you decide you'd like to migrate your galleries from CE3-to-CE4-to-Backlight, let me know and I'll hook you up with the CE4 plugins to be used as middleware. But depending on how attached you are to your previously-published galleries, it might be better to begin anew. Your call.

rod barbee · 2016-05-05 12:12:15

I still have CE3 Publisher installed in Lightroom. It stands apart from the Backlight version. I assume it still works but I haven't tested it in a while. (I still have a CE3 test site for some reason)

jeffreyhughes · 2016-05-05 20:19:26

Thanks, guys. This is helpful (and encouraging - as I truly would like to have a CE-like product, but one much easier to use; it sounds like Backlight could be that).

Just to reiterate... I'm perfectly fine with not having any kind of migration tool, of having to do a fresh install. In many cases that's the best approach anyway.

I'm also perfectly comfortable with using ftp, moving server-based files, changing their permissions, and the like.

But it's clear that just doing a fresh install of Backlight and recreating my galleries will likely create _some_ conflict with my present CE3 config. Even if it's nothing more than the 'index' file under my domain. unless, perhaps, that file is overwritten by Backlight?

It sounds like having two instances of Publisher (one from CE, one from Backlight) within Lightroom is okay. You just wouldn't use the old one from CE anymore. For those of us semi-anal types who hate to see such deprecated, unused software elements hanging around, is there a way to remove the older instance of Publisher?

Surely Backlight - both its installation and it subsequent operation - have been extensively tested on systems that already have CE4, CE3, and CE2 running (that's its first, natural constituency, after all). Sounds like migrating from CE4 is nailed down. CE3 and CE2, not so much. As a CE3 user, that's the part that still remains somewhat opaque to me.

Thanks again...

Jeff

rod barbee · 2016-05-05 20:28:18

Matt stated above that he'd supply the CE4 plugins as a bridge from CE3 to Backlight.
You would then need to use the CE3 to CE4 migration tool to bring your CE3 albums and sets under CE4 Publisher control.
Then use the CE4 to Backlight migration tool to bring those albums and sets under Backlight Publisher control.

jeffreyhughes · 2016-05-05 20:52:38

Thanks, Rod (and Matt - certainly appreciate the offer!). Alas, I'm disinclined to dive into upgrading to CE4 as a means of getting to Backlight. Just don't want to deal with the CE mess anymore.

Clearly there is a way for someone in my situation (or someone running CE2) to install Backlight. Even if it involved the extreme case of formatting one's hard drive, fresh-installing the OS, fresh-installing Lightroom, then fresh-installing Backlight.

More likely, of course, is it's something far less dramatic:
- Backup your system
- Install Backlight
- Move <this> file
- Delete <that> file
etc., etc.

I'm just trying to understand what that process is...

Thanks,

Jeff

rod barbee · 2016-05-05 21:32:57

Even if it involved the extreme case of formatting one's hard drive, fresh-installing the OS, fresh-installing Lightroom, then fresh-installing Backlight.

That would be extreme. Since Backlight does not install on your computer (other than the Publisher plug-in) and has nothing to do with Lightroom, there's no need to remove any existing CE2 or CE3 plug-ins or reinstall Lightroom.

This is what I'm planning for when I move my site to Backlight:
Install Backlight in a sub-domain.
Design until happy.
When ready, remove CE4 files from main domain except ttg-be/ and the galleries/ folder.
Move Backlight from sub-domain to main domain and make the changes in Settings needed to reflect the changed location (this is easy)
Run the CE4 to Backlight Publisher migration.
Update all albums and album sets with appropriate Backlight created templates.

But I have a ways to go since I use a lot of Stage pages that are under Publisher control.

alfred · 2016-05-05 22:22:30

Rod, the CE4 Stage pages under Publisher control is what worries me - how do you intend to proceed with that? Wait until the Stage functionality becomes eventually available?

rod barbee · 2016-05-05 22:47:22

alfred wrote:

Rod, the CE4 Stage pages under Publisher control is what worries me - how do you intend to proceed with that? Wait until the Stage functionality becomes eventually available?

Yep, that's what I'm planning on.

I have most (if not all) of my Stage based albums controlled by a separate Publisher instance under a different top-level galleries folder. So I might migrate my regular albums and keep the Stage-based albums as they are.

I'm in no great hurry though. I'll probably wait for a full migration until Stage and WordPress are available. Until then I'll just play in my test domain

Daniel Leu · 2016-05-06 01:04:11

I'm in no great hurry though. I'll probably wait for a full migration until Stage and WordPress are available. Until then I'll just play in my test domain smile

Same for me. I'll wait until I have Cart and WordPress support and then I'll start the migration of my site. Until then, I play with my test domain.

Community @ The Turning Gate

#1 2016-05-05 07:04:01

To Backlight or Not...

#2 2016-05-05 07:32:14

Re: To Backlight or Not...

#3 2016-05-05 07:42:27

Re: To Backlight or Not...

#4 2016-05-05 07:47:40

Re: To Backlight or Not...

#5 2016-05-05 11:22:55

Re: To Backlight or Not...

#6 2016-05-05 12:12:15

Re: To Backlight or Not...

#7 2016-05-05 20:19:26

Re: To Backlight or Not...

#8 2016-05-05 20:28:18

Re: To Backlight or Not...

#9 2016-05-05 20:52:38

Re: To Backlight or Not...

#10 2016-05-05 21:32:57

Re: To Backlight or Not...

#11 2016-05-05 22:22:30

Re: To Backlight or Not...

#12 2016-05-05 22:47:22

Re: To Backlight or Not...

#13 2016-05-06 01:04:11

Re: To Backlight or Not...

Board footer